Edward Limonov is a complex and a contradictory figure. One of the greatest modern Russian writers, today he is more famous as a politician.
In the outgoing year, Limonov has made several steps towards Islam and Muslims. What has driven him to this? What is his message to the Muslims of Russia and the world? What does he think about Islam and actual problems related to it?
These are the questions we tried to clarify from him directly.
- Recently you published the notorious article “The Islam Card”. As far as we know, your positive attitude towards Muslims and their religion was greatly influenced by your prison experience when you were jailed in Lefortovo in a cell with the Chechen Aslanbek Alkhazurov, which was written in one of your books. Were there other factors that prompted you to look at Islam with sympathy?
I remember that back in 1996 together with Geydar Jemal I came to the Journalist House where a press conference was being held, on which Russian Muslims expressed their protest against the publication of the Salman Rushdi book “The Satanic Verses”. Long before that, I had the occasion to read it in English.
I find the publication of such books outrageous. In my view it is a purposeful insulting of the faithful’s feelings.
Rushdi’s book is disgusting, low standard, dissolute and blasphemous. It is absolutely not a literature masterpiece.
This is why I become united with the feelings of Russia’s Muslims and was present at this press conference. And we managed to achieve that the publishing house “Limbus-press” doesn’t publish it. This was my first experience of joint action with Muslims.
I have known Geydar Jamal for many years. In 1998 we grew closer, went to Kazan together, went to mosques and spoke before very strange gatherings of people, of whom half were national-bolsheviks and sympathizers and the other half were Muslims attracted by Geydar. I was very impressed by that.
Then Jemal has opened up a lot of truths before me, maybe simple ones for those who know Islam better. From that time on, this religion impresses me more and more each year.
And then I am already 63 years old and whatever you want it or not you become wiser, it is just a necessity. And therefore each year I get closer to Islam as a wise religion.
- At the present time many ethnic Europeans and ethnic Russians convert to Islam. In particular, interest to Islam is high among the impassioned youth. We know in particular that NBP members are also becoming Muslims. In you view what attracts politically active young people to Islam?
The Russian Orthodoxy is a religion traditionally very submitted to the State. And also it is not aggressive, not protesting.
As for Islam there is a lot more of strength. This is an active religion that doesn’t accept injustice.
I think that National-bolsheviks are looking for protest and discipline in Islam mostly. Islam clearly says how one should behave in everyday life, which is not taught by any other religion, or at least those that are practiced on Russia’s territory.
In Islam a person has it easier. I saw how easier it was for Muslims in prison than for normal prisoners. In prayer they were uniting with their whole community, with the huge Muslim world. And this gives a person great strength, allows him to feel that he’s not a grain of sand.
Normal prisoners were lonely, nervous like chips carried by the wind and this difference was very clear. Beside Lefortovo, in other prisons I met Chechens and Muslims of other nationalities. As a rule they were happier (as far as it is possible in a prison), more vigorous and strong. I think that all of this was given to them by religion, their belonging to a huge community.
- How did you consider the events in Nalchik?
I judge by published sources, however I had the impression that the outbreak of popular indignation in Nalchik was a fast angry reaction and not a planned action. This was so spontaneous and naïve that one gets the impression that it was more a protest against violence than a planned military operation.
The action was too foolish and too unplanned. Therefore, I am still of the opinion that the revolt was born spontaneously, during a few days.
- You have said that Islam is a religion in which the fight for social justice occupies an important place. How do you think, is the Diaspora, ethnic factor playing a big role in today’s French popular unrests or is this, let’s say, an Islamic revolt?
According to the information we have access to, the role of the Arab factor is important in today’s’ events. In France, a dominant number of Muslims are Arab immigrants that have arrived from Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco. They are about 4,5 million.
When I lived in France, I had the opportunity to observe their life in the so- called ghettoes. It is a whole net of Harlems on the outskirts of Paris. Not only Arabs live there, but also the poor French population.
On the other hand, social reasons are also strong in the events in France. In the last years Paris has become a rich city, the apartment rents have gone up, the city is rebuilding. The poor were just squeezed out of it by purposely putting up the prices and these people were left to themselves.
Of course, in such a rich country like France nobody was dying from hunger but it was clear that there were people of second and third rank in this State forgotten by everybody. Nobody paid real attention to them.
In this aspect I do not even believe that in the French revolt the religious Muslim factor was important. I think it is mainly a social protest, determined by unemployment, the fact that these people feel like exiles and live like this during generations.
Here we can recall the Arab military that defended France in 1962 and have emigrated from their country with the French military. Later, millions of descendants of these Arabs who fought for the metropolis turned out to be forsaken. Although they have a right for this country too.
- In Iraq, the Americans were initially trying to collide the Shiite and the Sunni population, which they unfortunately partially managed. How do you see the perspectives of the Iraqi resistance?
Of course, all these people are amazing me. The short war against Saddam Hussein made us in Russia somehow gloomy.
Because we thought that the Iraqis will resist. The Americans seemed to celebrate victory for several months.
And suddenly everybody saw how a large coalition of forces resisting the occupier was forming. Of course it was an indicator of the Iraqi people’s potential and the fact that they won’t submit.
No doubt, the enemy is just monstrous, powerful and the Iraqi people will overcome it only at the cost of great efforts. But we will hope that Iraq will have its own state and government, not imposed by an outsider but elected by the people itself. I see the resistance perspectives with certain optimism.
Ideally I would like that the existing religious currents attain an equilibrium and avoid a situation in which Iraq is fractioned on a series of small states for the Kurds, the Shiites, the Sunnis. This country has all the possibilities for living decently and independently.
- You have a great experience of living in the West; did you encounter Muslims there? What can you say about them, in what are they different from their Russian brothers and sisters in faith?
I have known a huge quantity of Muslim writers, exiles, emigrants of various kinds. In their time, they have all found refuge in Paris.
My personal relations with them were always very friendly. Personally I had always a positive attitude towards the Muslim religion, always interested in it, never shied from learning something new.
Actually, since for the last 12 years I was doing politics I think that a Russian politician is simply obliged to take in account that there is about 30 million Muslims in Russia.
But in our State today their interests are practically ignored. They try to govern Islam like they are governing the Russian Orthodox Church; they try to submit and to tame the representatives of the “official religion”. All of this is disgusting and false.
The foreign policy must also take in account the interests of the 30 million Muslims. We cannot allow ourselves many things – for example, to strive into the European Union, the NATO, since their interests are contrary to a huge quantity of our population.
Any responsible politician in Russia simply must have a friendly attitude towards Muslims, not to put it against Islam – this is monstrous, it is a short road that ultimately leads to death.
Islam in Russia must be seen as something familiar, and to make it organically and not artificially. I think it would not be so bad to live in a State, in which the ruler takes in account the interests of Muslims and understands the meaningfulness of their religion.
- What is the attitude towards Muslims in the NBP, including those who are party members?
Unfortunately, today’s Russian politicians are not quite realizing what do they need Muslims for. The communists are mostly addressing the workers. There are parties that speculate on xenophobia, on chauvinism.
In reality the latter don’t even realize that trying to get the sympathy of low bunches of chauvinists living in the suburbs they are losing far more. They are losing a huge disciplined and very reasonable circle of people, the Muslims. And this will be their mistake again.
In 12 years our party has also gone through many illusions and we realized the absolute shabbiness of such chauvinist groups, alcoholics discussing near drugstores that they are “pissed at blacks”. There is very few of these people, they are not influencing anything, not even elections.
While the Muslims are reasonable, sober people. They don’t want to be searched at every turn, insulted, beaten, forbidden to practice their religion as freely as they want. We are not trying “to be friends”, we are just taking for granted that the Muslims are just are citizens and maybe even better.
When the first Muslims appeared in our party we looked at them like at some exotica, although we did not have any distrust and we welcomed this. Now we are trying to reinforce our relations with those practicing Islam.
- And what must be the situation of Muslims in Russia, in your opinion?
You know, the Russian 1917 revolution was prepared and made by dissatisfied nations who wanted to destroy the peoples’ prison.
We can say that the Bolsheviks didn’t succeed in some things, but in comparison to the disgusting chauvinist State that has existed before 1917 they have built a more progressive construction. Of course, there were excesses, religion was fought and not everything turned out as wished.
Nevertheless, it is in our interests today to unite the people again so that Russia does not turn into a prison of peoples. I speak about prison guards not as Russians but as a certain political order. We don’t need a police and a corrupt state. Its very bases must be different.
I believe that we will accomplish changes in our country and that the Muslims will be with us, following the laws of justice and virtue. Although today this word is forgotten as “pompous” and “old”, but nevertheless, daily in the world evil is fighting good.
- How do you see the perspectives of the development of relations between Russian non-Muslims, Russians converted to Islam and “ethnic Muslims” – Caucasians, Tatars? How to avoid confrontations and divisions?
Today our State is like an evil father who beats his sons, holds their mother in fear and thus tries to retain them together. But in real fact a family cannot be saved in this way, it must be based on common interests, love, free will to be together and mutual respect.
In real fact, when I put myself on the place of the Chechens I ask myself: what can they do with us? Do we have a common project? No, we cannot offer them anything beside the stupid claim that Chechnya is part of the Russian federation and that we have fought for 10 years now. So what, are we going to fight 100 years? What do we offer them – the same that is happening on the territory of the Russian federation? What can we give to them – a devastated land, burned out villages, vodka?
When we in Russia will have a really healthy project, everybody will follow us because Russia, the Russian language, the Russian civilization is really bringing a certain uniting contribution. Let’s broaden this civilization!
Let’s teach in schools not only the literature of the Russian XIX century but let’s teach Muslim authors, Muslim historians – there is an extraordinary Muslim culture!
When I was in prison I learned that Muslims have a culture based on the Koran, while the Russian teenagers don’t have anything apart from dumb music. They don’t have religious culture, not even orthodox culture.
Not a superficial, but a real Muslim is certainly higher: he has Koran notions even if he hasn’t studied them in depth and is not a specialist, nevertheless he has a platform, on which he stands solidly. But in our country there is no doubt still a moral degradation.
Of course it is obvious that not everybody born Muslim lives according to the Koran or some doesn’t live by it at all. But still, this model exists while we don’t have anything, even the notorious western individualism.
Russia needs a new reality, a new history. It is necessary to form it, we can’t hold on to falsely interpreted history episodes like today, once we decided to celebrate the anniversary of the Kulikovskaya battle, then we tried to celebrate the taking of Kazan. One gets the impression that we are doing everything in order to cause nations to quarrel.
Even if there are such episodes in history they must be forgotten. Besides, the Kulikovskaya battle is far from being equally interpreted, there are historians revisionists – Fomenko, Nosovski who say that it took place near Moscow and that Russian and Tatar troops participated on both sides.
But still we have dumb powers who are constantly trying to insist on such episodes of Russian history while we must make an accent on others – for instance, we are celebrating the Day of the nation on April 5th, when Alexander Nevski resisted an intervention from the West – by the way, there were Tatar troops there who have decided of the battle’s fate. We should accentuate the attention on such episodes and teach them in schools and not to underline episodes that divide us all.
- If we look at politics from a culturalist point of view, sometimes we can discover strange things. For example, in some aspects the vector of activity of the national-bolsheviks and the Islamic movements is often spontaneously coinciding.
For example, you have often written about the fight against the Russian adat. It is known that many Muslim ideologists are also speaking out against popular customs incompatible with the Sharia. Superstitions. Survivals. It is still understandable what is moving people who don’t want to abandon some pleasures (drinking, unlimited sex) for the sake of executing Islamic obligations, which undoubtedly bear the character of a healthy disciplining factor and are absolutely justified. However people are stubbornly holding on to hypocrite, sometimes barbaric pagan prejudices. What is driving them? What do you think?
I see that conservatism; an exaggerated desire to keep some traditions even despite completely reasonable instructions of the Koran is a disease of many societies. Despite everything people want to hold on to them.
Still many mistakenly think that these are Koran norms, although they are not. I have observed something similar in the Caucasus, in Abkhasia, where people practice a completely crazy cult of ancestors, driven almost to absurdity.
- How, in your opinion, can we resist this?
Wise teachers are needed – this is the only way. It exists in Islam although as we see the wahhabis are against any teachers, affirming that they can do without. There are also false teachers, of course.
The limit between the instructions of the faith and popular traditions is very thin. It is quite difficult to observe it, but one has to strive for it. Since it is impossible to exist completely without traditions.
But faithful Muslims are happy because they have the Koran. The Great Allah, the Almighty, by the means of the prophet Muhammad has inscribed rules in it and this is wonderful. There is no such clarity in other religions today.
Tags: Alkhazurov, Chechens, European Union, Fomenko, France, Iraq, Islam, Jemal, Koran, Lefortovo, Limonov, Muhammad, Muslims, National-Bolsheviks, NATO, NBP, Nevski, Nosovski, Paris, prison, Rushdi